Stephen P. Williams - Are You Stephen’s People? | S8 E01
What does it take to be a man whom we interview on Two Old Bitches? Stephen P. Williams, 64, only the second man on our show in five years, is an excellent example of just what it takes. A journalist, author, visual artist and the creator of Stephen’s People, a newsletter on aging, he is as fascinated by getting old as we are. (Full disclosure: his piece on Old Men sex dolls in his newsletter also captured our imagination!) Stephen has written that as a boy growing up in Kansas, he “leaned back under a cottonwood and felt wind, the sky and the leaves, all connected. That pure sensation guided everything that followed.” He has written a number of nonfiction books --Blockchain: The Next Everything is the latest-- and six as-of-yet unpublished novels. In the midst of the pandemic, he set off on a road trip captured in his video, art and word project, Postcards from Pandemic. With curiosity, thoughtfulness and wit, he brings a fresh and realistic take on aging to Stephen’s People --and did we mention he gives damn good dating advice? Listen to our conversation with Stephen and then subscribe to his weekly newsletter.
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Introduction
Joanne and Idelisse: Welcome to two old bitches. I'm Idelisse Malavé and I'm Joanne Sandler. And we're two old bitches we're interviewing our women friends and women who could be our friends. Listen, as they share stories about how they reinvent themselves.
Stephen: I tell you that my brother, my younger brother, he said, um, he said those two are gonna rip you apart.
Joanne and Idelisse: Have we? No, no, we're actually so nice, but we really do wanna know, is a doll a good substitute for an old man?
Idelisse: Welcome to the first episode of season eight of the two old bitches podcast. And we're talking today, Joanne to a man.
Joanne: I think, you know, Idelisse, I think particularly since new season new life, new rules. We should be clear about what does it take to be a man who gets onto two old bitches?
Joanne and Idelisse: Transparency is everything right.
Idelisse: And since Stephen is only the second man ever, ever in over five years to make it onto this stellar show, um, what would you say? What does it take? Joanne?
Joanne: I think Stephen P. Williams, who is on the show is an excellent example of what it takes. Because it takes, first of all, an interest in aging. In the aging process it does.
Joanne and Idelisse: And as Stephen who's 64, which is old enough to be on, says he's a journalist in New York city and is fascinated by the wonderful and sometimes terrible things that happen. As we age, he's a journalist and he's an author of many books. One of the key focuses of his writing work these days is a newsletter called Stephen's people, which is how we found him.
Right. And so he's also in. Our world of, you know, that interest in aging and Joanne he's also, I would say a soulful man, wouldn't you? Deeply soulful. One of the reasons we reached out to him was because we read his newsletter and we read what he wrote and loved his style of writing. And then finding out about our listeners as well, finding about, about his pathway to where he is today. And I love we, we, of course we do. We Google and do research on folks.
And one of the things we read was a bio and we loved how he described, um, growing up in Colorado and how one morning he says, I leaned back under a Cottonwood and felt wind the sky and leaves all connected. That pure sensation, guided everything that followed.
I mean, that's a romantic . He is, he's a, well, he seems like a romantic. We don't really know him. um, and at the same time, writes a book on blockchain is very involved in really interesting things around artificial intelligence. And so we had a great conversation with Stephen, which we know people are going to enjoy.
And we started by asking him. Are you an old bitch? And then we followed with our standard question. Who are you?
Stephen: I, I won't, I won't claim that. In fact, I really, uh, don't use the word much. So, uh, because of, uh, sensitivities in my household to that word, I used to have a dog that I loved and I would call her a bitch, uh, because of the dictionary definition. Right. And, um, that was the, but that's the only time. Otherwise, I will, I will definitely get canceled as a father.
I feel like I used to know who I was and, um, More or less, or, but in the last, like I'm 64 and in the last few years, I've started to think that I don't know who I am and that in the next 30 years or however long I have, I really want to figure that out. Like, that's my goal. Like to figure it out. And to be that person, no matter what, what, who that person is.
So, but I'm, I'm like in the process.
Joanne: So. One of the things we're of course, very curious about is what got you hooked on aging? What, what, what your interest in that, in this now? So many people try to avoid it as much as possible.
Idelisse: Well, but it's getting to be the crowded field. When we start doing this, you know, there weren't that many other folks doing this five or six years ago, but right now it's, it's a market or something or a segment
Stephen: I think it's just that, you know, Like, uh, creative people get older.
And so they, you know, they used to write about nightclubs or whatever, or, you know, tricycles, and now they write about, you know, the age they are. But for me, um, I got interested when I realized I was getting older, like, which was probably when I, around, when I turned 60, you know, I kind of realized that, of course I always knew.
And I've never like hidden from, from aging. Never tried to reverse it or prevent it, but, um, I look at it as, um, just a fascinating new period of my life that is, is really mysterious to me. And. Also a time of life that gives, gives you a lot of freedom. If you want to seize it. Cause nobody cares. Are we allowed to swear on this podcast?
Joanne and Idelisse: Oh we, yes. We swear a lot to do it.
So nobody gives a fuck about you when you get over 50, 60. And um, you can be whoever you want. And in fact, people find it cute. You know, it's like, um, You know, I I'm just fascinated by it. And also I feel like if I look at it like directly and, uh, and not, don't try to wear rose colored glasses about it, then maybe I can actually end up helping people who have more trouble doing that who have trouble looking at it squirrly in the, in the face. And it can also help create a, you know, sense of community of people that, uh, That are comfortable with that with being older and talking about it and you know, all the stuff, but , I don't like getting older. I I'll make that clear. I mean, I, I don't necessarily say more that the physical effects are like horrifying, but anyway,
Joanne: Like which, which parts go deeper?
No, no, seriously. Oh, the physical part. What about parts about getting older? Do you really not like, uh,
Stephen: Well, I'm single. Right. And I don't like dating as an older person. I really, uh, I mean, I wish I, I would enjoy it more, but I, I don't like that. Um, because it's. Well, every, I can't pull the wool over anyone's eyes anymore.
You know, that's how it used to be. But once you get older, you like know, what's know what's up and they can't pull the wool over in my eyes either though plenty have tried and, um, it's, uh, you know, so I don't like that. The physical part is that like, I have to be. On top of things or they quickly degenerate, you know, like there's no grace period.
So, um, you know, I recently had a, a diagnosis of hiatal hernia.
Uh, you know, once I got the diagnosis, I was like, of course, of course I should have known this for the last few years. And then, you know, when I got it, I have taken like kind of, um, drastic steps to make it better and to make it not affect me through the rest of my life, but things like that happen. And you just have to really, uh, Be there for it.
You know, you can't, I can't ignore my body anymore. I still feel pretty invincible, but, um, but I'm not.
Joanne and Idelisse: So Ide, of course, the impetus for inviting Stephen on was that he created this really amazing read on substack called Stephen's people. I love when it arrives on Sunday mornings in my inbox. It's it's always a good read. Go ahead. Sorry. Really worth, subscribing, really worth subscribing. Um, no, just to say that.
You know, we started two old bitches because we had a lot of questions about our own process of aging. It's old, right. As old women. Right. And Stephen acknowledged kind of the same motivation, right. There is something almost self-centered about the kind of media we're all producing on aging and so many. Of us are producing media.
Exactly. That, that stems from our personal experience of getting old. Yeah. So Stephen tells us how and why he started.
Stephen: Well, I started at, uh, two years ago. Um, it was called the next everything age, the next everything. And, um, The, the reason I started was a little bit mercenary. I mean, I was definitely interested in the topic. I've been a journalist and an author all my life, and I was trying to think of like, what, um, what could I do?
Like that might be interesting to me and provide regular income like into my eighties. Cause I'm, I'm not a person with a full retirement all figured out. And so, um, you know, and I thought about, you know, I was familiar with substack and I thought about doing a newsletter and about this subject and that's kind of how I, how I got into it initially.
And then the more I did it and, and kind of found my voice within it, which was very personal. Self-centered anecdotal about me, me, me, me, me a lot. That was, you know, that turned out to be the voice. I was most comfortable with. Surprise, surprise. I'm a writer. but, um, so that's, that's how I, you know, how I, uh, continued it, but I, you know, all my life as a, as a journalist, I've always wanted to always, uh, strive to include a lot of like, very useful, good information in very light writing and presentations so that people can hear a story may not, may maybe not even realize they're learning something. And so I think that's continued here, but, uh, recently I've discovered a sense, like a desire for community in this space. And that's kind of outside of my comfort zone. I'm very much a loner and always have been. So, but I think in this getting older space, a sense of community friendship and shared knowledge is, is really, really important, which I, I was really to asked on this and also a sense of rage I have about how old, older people are treated.
It's just, it really enrages me and. Well enrage. That's such a big word. I don't really get enraged much, but it annoys the hell out of me, and um, I would like to build a community around Stephen's people that helps, uh, helps vent their frustrations, but also accomplish something. And, you know, I'm nowhere near that, but that's a long term goal for sure.
Right now I have about 2000 subscribers and, uh, much smaller number of paid subscribers. And my goal is to have a thousand. My goal was to have a thousand paid subscribers by the end of this year. I'm I have to be more real realistic about that. Mm-hmm so I haven't decided what my goal is now for this year.
Um, but my long term goal over five years is to have 10,000 paid subscribers and, um, to be producing a, you know, a really high quality newsletter, uh, that's very personal and, and maybe have some help doing it at that time.
Joanne: You don't really give advice in Stephen's people. Do you?
Stephen: Sometimes I'll give a little advice more I give information. Yeah. Um, and I wonder if, if I should give more advice, but in many ways I don't feel like what is. What do my thoughts mean? What does my advice mean? I'm not, I'm not sure. I might try it a little bit more.
Cause, um, if you ask anyone in my family, if I like to give advice, they would all say yes. So so, but you know, I actually think that ask my, ask my two ex-wives. If I like to give advice.
Stephen: One of them passed, but the other one won't speak to me. Love to what the second one has to say.
Idelisse: We didn't ask Stephen for advice at this point in the, in our conversation, but we did want to know and asked him about how he sees the differences in aging between men and women.
Stephen: I mean, my, my take on gender has evolved a lot in the last, uh, few, five or six years, um, with, uh, I have a transgender daughter and, and that, uh, you know, sort of learning along with her, from her, her teen years, you know, to now has like opened my. It made me think a lot about, about gender and, and roles that we play.
And I kind of am actually looking forward to the day where we don't have to really have this, you know, Assumptions all the time about that somebody is something and, you know, so they should be a certain way. But the fact is we do have, we do have those roles and I was definitely, you know, definitely raised in them.
Um, and as it's funny, I had five, um, I had a grandmother and she had four sisters, no brothers, uh, and that was my father's mother. And so. Uh, I was around, I grew up in Kansas and I was around her and, and the others, uh, quite a bit. And three of 'em, especially just really, you know, raised me a lot. And then I had on my other side, a great grandmother and a grandmother and an aunt and, um, me and my two brothers raised by a single mother.
And it was just like a lot women around, you know, and, uh, and, um, you know, I, I think that was much, uh, very helpful to me growing up. And, um, but, but I saw, like, what I'm trying to say was I was, I was around a lot of old women when I was in my, like late teens, twenties as these ladies got, you know, into their seventies and eighties and I help take care of them sometimes.
And. It was really interesting to see, like I've always grown up with this perspective of those women and my mother who were super independent, kind of in charge of their families and their finances and future. And, uh, in the, in the reality, I, I see that I was raised in a, a bubble, you know, like a, a real bubble.
And I see now, like a lot of, uh, Well, for instance, I met a, I, I met a woman that I went to grade school with and junior to junior high with, uh, hadn't seen her in like 45 or 50 years. And she and her husband were in New York and he was sick and she and I got together and she told me she had never eaten out in a restaurant by herself, you know, in, in her entire life.
And that was like so shocking to me cause she's a wealthy, um, You know, aristocratic woman from Venezuela. And, um, you know, it was just really surprising to me.
It's easy for me to, to not shave. Like I used to shave all the time and now I hardly ever do. And it's like, it's easy for me to do that. And. To dress in a grubby way and still think of myself as like a little bit of Clint Eastwood, you know, like I've still, still got that, that kind of ruggedness or whatever, but I think it's, it's impossible for a woman who, um, who to not like, uh, think about things like that.
I think not impossible for them, but we make. There's much more pressure on women, my age to look appropriate and look good and not necessarily be fancy or fashionable, but just to look pulled together. Whereas just look around and you'll see all the men, my age are generally slobs. So, uh, you know, that's it, I think there is some sort of like allowances given to men that isn't, isn't given to women and also, um, I think just in general, even young, young men and, and women, men, I've seen studies that say, men feel like they look pretty good.
You know, like you ask the majority of men, how they look "pretty good", you know, maybe a little overweight or whatever. And I don't find that as much with, um, you know, with women, I think that that. Stereotyping of men is a subject that goes unexplored. And if we could explore it further as a society, we might prevent a lot of the issues that people have with men. So I think that, um, like me, for instance, I, I raised three kids. Uh, three girls. And, um, for much of the time I raised them by myself.
And I think that that is, um, you know, a very - probably unusual, you know, in our culture, but not as unusual as people think. Yeah. Men are, you know, very rarely given that kind of like respect as full-time caregivers and, and what, what all of that involves. And I also think that men are. You know, it's, it's easy to like see men as silent, uncommunicative, depressed, whatever, you know, not, not, not like participating in, in relationships or in other parts of, of society, but I think men are not quite so simple as that and that maybe some of the great mysteries, uh, that we accept about women and women's psychology and behaviors. I think that men also have a lot of these great mysteries, but they just, no, one's that interested in, in, in talking about it. So that's something I would love to, I would love to see, uh, explored more and just see people, you know, raise boys outside of some of these stereotypes that they're raised with now. And I don't know, I think things will be better, a lot better.
Joanne and Idelisse: So Ide, Stephen raises that. , you know, there could be more exploration of the stereotyping of men, which there can always be more exploration of stereotyping and, and bias. However, I would say the totally inadequately unexplored stereotyping is the stereotyping of people with white gray and other shades of age, signifying hair and, and Joanne, I always think of how you describe your experience on the subway.
What is it? You call it the, the Jack in the boxes. As soon as I get on the subway, everybody gets up and says, don't you need a seat. right. I mean, and that's. It's well, it's not just hair, but hair is the, is the clearest signifier, because think of it when you're all masked up. Yeah. The only thing that's really out there that says old almost your forehead is really very, very wrinkle
Um, is your hair, um, so it was great to talk to a man about hair.
Stephen: Yeah. Well, I started going gray when I was about 18 and I'm, I'm pretty white haired. I have a streak of black on the back of my head. That's getting larger, according to my barber, but, um, right. You can't see it. I'm not gonna turn around. You're not gonna turn around. Okay. Because now we're endlessly curious to see the stripe in the back of your head.
Joanne and Idelisse: Oh, we see it. Cool to, but it's nice. Very nice, nice gradual gradual effect. I would've thought you did that on purpose. If I saw you in the street.
Stephen: Only started a few years ago and it's getting like it's creeping up, you know, centimeter by centimeter. So. That's fast. If, if any drug companies are interested.
Idelisse: So I know when I, I finally just went, um, this is it, I'm doing it. I still remember walking actually in Chelsea and a woman like rushing up behind me and tapping me and going, you know, I just wanna say, I think you are so brave.
Stephen: And what is that really? What are they really saying? Like you you're brave enough to be as old as you are?
Idelisse: She says, I wish I could do it, but I could never do it. Right. Um, to kind of it be, you know, be your age, be yourself in, in this, your old self in this way.
Stephen: Um, so it's funny with me, like, In terms of like, just, you know, uh, Attractiveness, you know, of, of women I might see, like on the street or whatever, or like, I, I find that, uh, gray hair is much more attractive and because it's genuine than, you know, after a certain age, I, I just find that it's, it feels like people with gray hair are just like more honest,
No, I've been, I've been wanting to write about gray hair, but I haven't, there's such an interesting culture on Instagram and TikTok around gray hair and women that, um, you know, I've wanted to write about it. It's it's too easy to, um, uh, to, I don't know when I think about it or look at all these videos and stuff, it's too easy to become a cynical in a way like there, I mean, if, if I find that culture of I really, really interesting the whole aging thing, um, I find that a lot of. People who, who display their gray hair or talk about a, that are kind of saying, look how beautiful I am. Even though I have gray hair rather than, um, this is just who I am.
And I'm trying to build an audience on, uh, Instagram for Stephen's people and, and some other projects I'm in. And I, I find that the. For the most part though, the aging space on those two platforms is look at me. I'm old. But I'm, I'm better old than anyone else or I'm, you know, I'm super strong or I'm super youthful or people mistake me for a 40 year old or, you know, all that, that kind of thing, which, you know, I can totally understand.
Um, if someone were to come up to me today and say, you don't look at day over 61, I would probably like be smiling, you know, but, uh, but you know, the, it would be nice to see more acceptance of the aging process where some people luck out. Some people don't luck out, or some people work hard to, you know, keep, keep their skin fresh or whatever.
Joanne and Idelisse: So Idelisse. We knew before we, um, talked to Stephen that there was a great piece. In his substack newsletter. Um, then we both just adored, how could you not? Right, right. What was the title? What was it was called? When was the last time you had the chance to call a man a real doll? And it's about this company that's making plastic dolls that people can have bad sex with. And they're toying with the ideas old men doll with the idea of producing an old man doll. I mean, come on. That is so brilliant. no, but Stephen writes in his substack newsletter. I'm not sure there's a great demand in our society for the erotic services of fake old men, but someone must be interested.
So I'm just saying right now, if you're listening to two old bitches and you're interested in having sex with a fake old man. Please let us know, cause we definitely wanna interview you!
Stephen: I tell you that my brother, my younger brother, he said, um, he said those two are gonna rip you apart.
Joanne and Idelisse: Have we? No, no, no, we're not at all. we're actually so nice, but we really do wanna know, is it doll a good substitute for an old man? Two bitches wanna know.
Stephen: Oh, you wanna male sex doll? Is that what you're talking about?
Joanne and Idelisse: We don't want one. We wanna know why you put that there. We want you answer the question that you had. You tried it yourself in your substack. I think it was your subtitle. Is it doll a good substitute for an old man and I just wondered.
Stephen: I would, uh, I would think that probably probably it is, you know, probably works, probably works better depending on how old the man is.
And, um, you know, isn't gonna ask you for money for a cab fair home and, you know, things like that. But, uh, to tell you the truth, I I've never had sex with a doll, so I can't really, you know, speak to that. But I have, I do have a relationship with my, uh, robot vacuum cleaner. And, um, I find, find that it is, it is very comforting.
If I'm working alone to hear the robot going around the room, getting stuck and, and whatever, it's like, it's like a pet. And we also had in our house for a while, a robot cat that was meant to soothe older people in nursing homes. Yeah. And that also really works. So I think that. Dolls and robots and whatever will become human companions for sure in the future. I really do. Not sure.
Joanne: Are you getting free samples?
Stephen: The thing is I don't like products and this is a really important part of aging. Like. Especially aging in the, the anthropocene, you know, where the world is, uh, succumbing to climate change. Um, we don't need any products and we have plenty of stuff. I mean, I'm not against buying things that, that a person needs, but I would have a really hard time attaching my name to a line of coffee mugs or satchels or, or anything like that.
So, um, I, uh, I doubt, I don't think product endorsement is in my future.
Idelisse: Joanne, as you. I have experimented ever so lightly with online dating with old men. Yes. Older men, old I'm sorry, old men. Both in there. One was in who I, um, went on a date with who's in his eighties and the other one was in his seventies. And those were the only guys who, um, understandably sought me out online, but I felt some desire to get, you know, perspective, a male perspective on online dating.
So we just. Stephen who's just so open and out there seemed like a perfect person to ask.
Stephen: Well, I think, uh, I, yeah, one thing might be to realize that it's as difficult for the man as it is for the woman. To, uh, to, to reach out and to, um, take the steps that you, especially with online dating, which we all do. I mean, I do, um, to take the steps, to meet somebody in whatever, um, like the traditional, uh, role models of, you know, woman being passive, the man being aggressive.
Like I don't, I think once, you know, at this age and in this time of the world, It's it's good for people just to say what they want. You know, I think that the whole problem, a big problem with dating is assumptions and expectations. And I would just rather live the rest of my life with neither of those, you know?
So that's, that's, that's one thing and, um, uh, Don't put in your thing that you don't like beard. So that's another thing or, or tattoos
Joanne and Idelisse: did you say beers or beards.()don't put in that you don't like beards or tattoos. So don't, don't, don't talk about what you don't like. Just talk about what you do. So you're like, don't limit your pool, I think.
Stephen: Oh, and like, okay. I mean, this is kind of jokey, but. Do not do not carry fish in the photo, in your dating profile.
Please and do not do not reveal too much with your yoga poses in your photos? Okay. Those are two like serious, serious problems that, that are very, very common.
Joanne: Can I just say that if you want thousands and thousands of subscribers, I honestly think if you gave dating advice from the perspective of he something, man, you know.
Stephen: That's, I'm gonna do that.
Joanne and Idelisse: Stephen in addition to being the writer, the journalist, um, the business person, the ghost writer that he is the aging expert, the aging expert is, is also in many ways a curator of all things on aging, different aspects of aging. Well, it's what you get in Stephen's people. Exactly. Newsletter, wonderful recommendations and with a little enough, so, you know, whether you wanna go read it or not, or look, or watch it and videos, everything, everything.
Joanne: So we asked him. What he would recommend to our two old bitches listeners. And of course he started by recommending the best podcast that is out there right now.
Stephen: Yeah. There are these two old bitches who do this. Great. Yeah. That's definitely good. Anything else, Stephen, that you've seen come out? Yeah, lemme think about that. Well, honestly, I really like, um, I like the coverage, the New York times does of aging. They have a wide number of people, you know, from John Leland did this amazing project where he hung out with older people for, for many years and wrote about them.
And also The Well, um, portion of the online magazine has a, a ton of great info about aging. So I do, I really like, like both of those.
Idelisse: The New York times had one, is this the one where it's, it's never too late that never too late series. It's never too late to cut a record. And it was, you know, this old guy, it was part of their old age, you know,
Stephen: I missed, I missed that, but that sounds really fascinating.
Idelisse: It was, they had a series of like, I think seven or eight of them. It's Never Too Late. Mm-hmm and it was that it goes back to what you said at the beginning. That sense of becoming of still growing and evolving as you age. Um, mm-hmm, not just about the limitations that, you know, we all experience in one way or another.
Stephen: Yeah, that sounds interesting. Another one that I'd recommend is, uh, it's someone who lives, uh, a block or two away from me. I see around the neighborhood is, uh, Paulina Porizkova's, Instagram account, which is like, You know, endlessly, like shocking, entertaining, warm. Uh, politically important, like it just shifts all the time.
And, um, she has a, you know, such a huge, uh, platform. And I think that that's like a great, a great thing to be entertained by and also to, to learn from, you know, well, there's,
Idelisse: She has a very genuine quality I find. Yeah.
Stephen: A lot of the, uh, social media influencers have these things called "Hype Houses" where they live together and make their content and all of that. And, you know, get stories about them () , so somebody started, uh, um, this one, um, what I call it, what's it called? Um, Retirement house.
And it's just these old people like doing skits and being stupid, just like young, uh, influencers. It's like couples. It looks like, but are really living in a retirement house. I think. Well, they're kinda all sharing a Hype House where they're making content for social media. So they're, they're just trying to like, you know, they wake up, hungover and they've gots in their arms and, you know, things like that, just like, just like, uh, younger people do hilarious.
Joanne and Idelisse: You know, spending that time with Stephen makes me wonder if we should have more men on. I I've found it really lovely to, to speak with him. He's funny and thoughtful and, and he knows this shit and he knows this shit. And, um, he listens, but, you know, it's, it was a wonderful conversation in that way, but I think we're clear about our guidelines.
We are, we are. Yeah. And when we stumble on the next extraordinary man who meets these guidelines, Or at least some of our criteria we will, of course invite them as we did Stephen to join us.
And in the meantime, we have amazing conversations coming up in season eight in of which this is the first episode.
Yes. And, and we, and we are talking with, we'll just give you a taste of what's to come. Um, Ayesha Pande who's a literary agent par excellent. I mean, an amazing human being to talk about BIPOC people, authors, agents, whatever, and publishing, but she's just, you know, a literary phenomena and, and we're gonna have, see, I'm already laughing.
I know Judy Gold, who is this amazing comedian, if you haven't watched her, seen her, had the good fortune to be in a room with her. Um, you definitely wanna listen to this and you also definitely wanna seek out whether or not she's performing close by and go see her, but that's to come in this season.
Yeah. That's just, and that's always Joanne, what would we like people to do? We would like people to do three things. What are they? They are listen to our podcast and tell your friends on any platform and rate it and rate it. Of course, as you like, especially if five, you like five star would be nice. Five star is good.
Um, we would like you to connect with us on medium, follow our blog and let us know what you think. And the third thing that we'd really love you to do is send us an email, let us know what you're thinking, what you're doing, who we should interview, what issues we need to be talking more about. Right because season 10 will not be season 10.
Sorry. Season eight will not be completed. It's so future oriented. I am. I keep calling it season 10. Me too. Yeah, I guess I wonder what that means at any rate it's not completed. So there's room there for someone who totally. You would like us to talk with.
Thanks for listening. Thank you, Stephen. P Williams.
Thank you, Stephen. And thank you, listeners.
