YES WE CAN CAN

Joanne Sandler, 73, is on an endless journey to find her bitchy voice. A lifelong feminist, Joanne was ‘institutionalized’ for nearly two decades (including as Deputy Executive Director of the UN Development Fund for Women-UNIFEM). She continues to write books (most recently, Gender at Work: Theory and Practice for 21st Century Organizations) and articles about women's rights transnationally.

Her lifelong motto still applies ”Always leave while you’re still having a good time!” 

Idelisse Malavé, 76, a Puerto Rican immigrant, has been honing her feminist bitchcraft for decades. After practicing law in the 70s and 80s, she went on to lead progressive organizations –the Ms. Foundation and the Tides Foundation – and co-wrote two books, Mother Daughter Revolution (Bantam) and Latino Stats (The New Press), the latter with her daughter.

Ide’s motto these days is: “If it pleases me, I will.”

Kathy Swarts – This is Your One Glorious Life | S9 E06

True confessions: as Two Old Bitches, we fully expected the Golden Bachelor to be the height of cringey, old-people porn. Watching 22 women in their 60s and 70s compete for the affections of one old man threatened gladiator-level, fury-induced female feuds. And were we ever wrong! Kathy Swarts, one of the most memorable of the contestants, set us straight in our delightful conversation with her. Kathy, at 70 years old, helped us understand that the real story of the Golden Bachelor is not a longed-for romance between a man and a woman --in this case, Gerry Turner and his choice, Theresa Nist who married immediately after the show ended to only announce their divorce three months later in mid-April! The real story is the phenomenal friendships forged by the gutsy, adventurous and authentic women who were chosen to ‘contest.’

Join us to hear Kathy, and two other contestants who make surprise cameo appearances, reveal how their experiences on the show awakened new curiosities and aspirations. From finding a man who loves life as much as she does to hosting her own TV show, Kathy, and her new crew of friends, are exploring a new range of possibilities for what’s next.

We’re sure you’ll want to know more so once you’ve tuned in to this TOB episode, join Kathy and Susan Noles, another contestant, for their new podcast, The Golden Hour. This conversation roused our interest in delving into the diverse approaches and stories of ‘later daters,’ so if you have an experience to share about dating in your 60s, 70s or 80s – or why you’ve decided to forego the experience – please reach out to us through our website or DM us on Instagram or Facebook! Enjoy the show!

June Millington - Music is Life | S9 E03

If you were deeply enmeshed in the ‘womyn’s’ music scene or romped topless through the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festivals in the 1970s and 1980s, then you will pulsate with memories of the amazing, kick-ass all-women’s rock group, Fanny. Even if you missed it, we hope you can imagine how revolutionary and transgressive Fanny was in its heyday in the early 70s. Which is why we were thrilled to find June Millington -- wild woman, lead guitarist and the band’s co-founder -- as kick-ass now as she was 50 years ago. At 75, June and her partner, Ann Hackler, run the Institute for Musical Arts in Goshen MA – hosting a recording studio and  annual camps that show scores of girls and young women the power of rock and roll to be their ‘get out of jail free’ card, just as it was for June and her sister Jean when, in early adolescence, they picked up their first ukuleles in the Philippines. You can immerse yourself in Fanny’s story, from their origins to meeting with the Beatles, playing back-up for Barbara Streisand, their successful albums and tours and more in the 2021 documentary, The Right to Rock. To learn more about June, check out her memoir, Land of a Thousand Bridges. A second memoir is coming soon and June and sister Jean’s latest album, "Play Like a Girl" is available on Spotify and Amazon Music. June still lives by the mantra that "life is music and music is life." We are eternally grateful to her for sharing a bit of the winding path that brought her to this point, as she bravely commits to coming face-to-face with herself at every age. 

Jeanne Silverthorne - Age Has Revealed My Nature to Me | S9 E05

American sculptor Jeanne Silverthorne, 73, is an “artist’s artist” known for cast rubber pieces and installations drawn from her studio, turning everyday objects and people into “metaphors for the inevitability of age and decay, …tempered with humor, hope and humanity.” (For photos of a favorite work of ours, Banshee: Self-Portrait at 73, see our website and social media.) She has showed her work at leading New York galleries for decades (currently at the Marc Straus Gallery) and in one-person exhibits including PS1 and the Whitney Museum in New York and the Institute of Contemporary Art in Philadelphia. Jeanne is on the faculty of the School for Visual Arts and has written extensively about art in a range of publications, most recently in the Brooklyn Rail with “Playing It Out” about aging as an artist. She is witty and wise, and surprisingly shy though you’d never guess it. More about that in our lively conversation with the delightful, insightful and gifted Jeanne Silverthorne.

The Only Two-Old Bitches Interview of ChatGPT Ever!! | S9 E02

We couldn't resist. We were way too curious about ChatGPT to let all of the controversy and (rightful) concern about the dangers of AI deter us from asking it about our favorite topic: the experiences of women in our second half of life. So we asked Chat to take on the persona of an older woman, "dive into the muddy waters of gender and ageism" and share "wisdom that only comes from years of livin' and loving." What we found? You be the judge. She is clearly artificial and not very intelligent but she gave us a lot to think about and had an amazingly positive view about aging. Hope she similarly inspires you, dear listener. Or as ChatGPT said when we asked her to write the blurb, "Grab your earbuds and settle in, sugar, 'cause these two old bitches got a tale or two to tell."

NOTE: In this episode, ChatGPT is played by our multi-talented producer, Katharine Heller.

Who Are You? | S9 E04

Who Are You? It’s a simple and profound question that we ask (almost) every guest on Two Old Bitches. And given that most of our guests are women over 60, we were curious if a review of their answers might reveal some patterns or insights into how we identify as we age. What we found: for some people, it still changes daily. Others had epiphanies early in life and still identify with that early notion of who they are. And then there are those who are completely stumped by the thought of describing who they are. The 80+ responses from our guests to this question fall into six categories. All of them speak to an inspiring insight: no matter their age or circumstance, our guests live very much in the present and manage a beautiful blend of respect for their pasts and aspirations for the future. So before you listen, take a minute, answer the question for yourself. “Who Are You?” And then listen to the diverse and delightful reflections that these 19 guests offer on who they are.

Maryjane Fahey - Glorious Broad | S9 E01

Two Old Bitches love a good reinvention story. By her count at 73, MaryJane Fahey is on “her 5th reinvention!” (But who’s counting?) She was a designer, published author, now an editor, writer, future playwright, future sculptor –and the list goes on. A few years ago, she started Glorious Broads, a media platform that encourages “women of all ages, younger ones especially, not to be scared of aging.” On Instagram, Tik Tok and Facebook, GB lifts up fabulous older women, “sages not saints,” living “imaginative, open, spectacular lives.” This year Glorious Broads is pitching a limited television series about the sex lives of women in the second half of life. Brimming with ideas, Maryjane is also working on a monologue about some of her icons navigating aging, and a possible theater piece. A decade or so ago –in her …fourth reinvention(?)– she co-authored Dumped, a post-breakup bible for women. Maryjane is a Two Old Bitches kindred spirit whose motto is “It is never too late. Period. End of story.” We think you’ll enjoy listening to our conversation with this exuberant, straight talking Glorious Broad as much as we did having it.